How Snyk Gets Buy-In to Improve Security with Chen Gour Arie

Chen Gour Arie, Director of Engineering at Snyk, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss how his company, Enso Security, got acquired by Snyk and what drew him to Snyk’s mission as a partner. Chen expands on the challenges currently facing the security space, and shares what he feels are likely outcomes for challenges like improving compliance across value-add on security tools and the increasing scope of cybersecurity at such a relatively early phase of the industry’s development. Corey and Chen also discuss what makes Snyk so appealing to developers and why that was an important part of their growth strategy, as well as Chen’s take on recent security incidents that have hit the news. About ChenChen is the Co-founder of Enso Security (part of Snyk) - the world's 1st ASPM platform. With decades of hands-on experience in cybersecurity and software development, Chen has focused his career on building effective application security tools and practices.Links Referenced:Snyk: https://snyk.ioSnyk AppRisk: https://snyk.io/product/snyk-apprisk/TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I’m Corey Quinn. This promoted guest episode is brought to us by our friends at Snyk, and as a part of that they have given me someone rather distinct as far as career paths and trajectories go. Chen Gour Arie is currently a director of engineering over at Snyk, but in a previous life—read as about six months or so ago—he was a co-founder of Enso Security, which got acquired. Chen, thank you for joining me.Chen: Thank you for having me, Corey.Corey: So, I guess an interesting place to begin is, what has the past couple of years been like? And let’s dive in with, what is or was Enso Security?Chen: Yeah. So, Enso started for me first as friendship because I joined the team that I was working with as a contractor for a while. There was such an excellent and interesting team with a very interesting environment. And then after a while, they asked me to join that team, and then I became part of the security team of a company called Wix.com.It’s quite a large company, web do-it-yourself kind of platform, that you can build your own website with a presentation style kind of interface, and our job was to secure that. And we formed a very, very nice friendship throughout it, but we also gained a lot of experience because you work with such a large company, and you experience many challenges, including real-time attempts to penetrate, and the complexity of social engineering at large scale. You go through a lot of things. So, this was the start. And after a couple of years, we decided that we have some interesting ideas that can do good to the community in the cybersecurity industry, and we embarked on a new journey together to start Enso.Corey: I can see why you aligned with Snyk. It sounds like a lot of what you were aimed at is very much in step with how they tend to approach things. I have a number of sponsors that I can say this about, but Snyk is a particularly fun one, in that, obviously, you folks pay me to run advertisements and featured guest episodes like this, which is appreciated, but we also pay you as a customer of Snyk because it does a lot of things that we find both incredibly useful and incredibly valuable. The thread that I’ve seen running through everything coming out of Snyk has been this concept of, I think, what some folks would say shifting left, but it comes down to the idea of flagging issues as early in the process as possible rather than trying to get someone to remember what they did three months ago, and oh, yeah, go back and address that. That alone has made it one of the best approaches to things that are truly important—and yes, I consider security to be one of those things—that I’ve seen in a while on the dev tool space.Chen: Yeah, and this has been the mission of Snyk for a very long time. And when we started Enso, our mission was to help in some additional elements of the same problem space in introducing additional tools to help drive this shift left, this democratization of the security effort around and in the organization, and resolving some of the friction that is created with the, kind of, confusing ownership of security and software development. So, this was kind of the mission of Enso. The category introduced by it and the ASPM category to bring the notion of postural security, postural management to applications. And it really is a huge fit with the journey of Snyk, and we were very excited to be approached by them to join their journey and help them do further shift left and extend on problem space on the complexity of this collaboration between security and developers.Corey: A question I have around this is that it seems to me that viewing security posture management from an application perspective, and then viewing other parts of it from a cloud provider perspective and other parts of it from a variety of different things—you know, go to RSA and walk up and down the endless rows of booths, and you know, look at the 12 different things that they’re all selling because it’s all the same stuff around 12 categories or so, with different companies and logos and the rest—it feels like, on some level, that can lead very quickly to a fractured security posture where, well this is the app side of the security, and then we have the infrastructure security folks, but those groups don’t really collaborate because they’re separate and distinct. How do you square that circle?Chen: Yeah, it’s not an easy problem, and I think that the North Star of many vendors exists this notion of sometimes I think we call it CNAP or something that will unify all of it. Cloud as a solution, and the offering that exists with cloud computing enables a lot of it, enables a lot of this unification, but we have to remember that the industry is young. The software security industry in general is young. If we will look at any other industry with that size, all of them have much more history and time to mature. And inside this industry, the security itself is even younger.It has become a real problem much later than then when software started. It has become a huge problem when cloud emerged and became, like, the huge deal that it is now. And when more and more businesses are based on digital services, and more people are writing software, a lot of it is young, and it needs time to mature, and it’s time to get to—to accomplish some big parts like this unification that you are pointing out missing.Corey: I have to confess my own bias here. A lot of the stuff that I build is very small-scale, leverages serverless technologies heavily, and even when I’m dealing with things like the CDK, where I start to have my application and the infrastructure that powers it coalesce into the same sort of thing, it becomes increasingly difficult, if not outright impossible for some of these config...